Q&A with Salome Zourabichvili

Salome Zourabichvili became the fifth president of the country of Georgia in 2018. Zourabichvili was initially endorsed by the ruling Georgian Dream party. But since then, the pro-Western politician has become a vocal critic of the ruling party’s move toward closer ties with Moscow and has backed nightly protests against the government. She spoke with Cristina Maza during a recent trip to Washington about democratic backsliding in her country, how the country’s ruling party is moving away from the West, and why Congress should pass the MEGOBARI Act to promote democratic efforts in Georgia. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Can you describe the process through which the Georgian Dream has worked to consolidate power and erode democracy?

They’ve done it in the regular way, like it’s done in all countries where you have a regime that gradually evolves from a democratic government which was supported by the vast majority of the people when they came to power, and when, in 2018, they enshrined Euro-Atlantic integration as a major priority in the constitution that had to be served by all institutions.

The first thing that happened was the reform of the justice system. That was slowed down and then stopped, and then suddenly we saw the return of some people who, under [former President Mikheil] Saakashvili, were responsible for the justice system being put under the control of the party and the government.

That was initially interpreted as the consolidation of power. Elections were coming and, as is natural in democracies, support was leveling off. And of course, controlling the tribunals is important during elections.

Then gradually, in parallel with what happened in Ukraine, that’s where we see the shift toward not only the consolidation of power, but toward complacency toward Russia, closer links, and the gradual introduction of Russian laws, directly copied from Russia, and the same playbook through which [Russian President Vladimir] Putin, much slower than in Georgia, suppressed civil society.

We’ve seen the same instruments, the same strategy used against civil society. Georgian civil society was much stronger than what you’ve ever seen in Russia, more organized, and with better links to the outside world. What’s surprising is the rapidity with which Georgian Dream has been moving to suppress civil society. People are still very active, but they are very isolated. Their links with the outside world are gradually closing. There are people in jail.

But on the 24th of February [2022], you had the invasion of Ukraine. On the 25th of February, the prime minister goes to the monument of the Soviet occupation, and there, he says we are not going to participate in international sanctions against Russia. There were no sanctions yet at the time, at least not linked to Ukraine, so it was an absurd statement.

Then we had a major speech by [Russian-linked oligarch and de facto leader of the ruling Georgian Dream party Bidzina] Ivanishvili at the time, which really set the tone aggressively toward our Western partners and shifted the foreign policy. Then, of course, there was the acceleration of Russian laws, the crackdown on demonstrations, and finally, the declaration of the prime minister, who said we are stopping our European integration process [in 2024].

Since the last parliamentary election in October, which the international community said was not free and fair, you have argued that the new government is illegitimate. Can you expand on this?

My [presidential] mandate finished in December. There are no longer direct elections for the president in Georgia. The parliament elects the president. My position, as well as that of the whole of civil society, is that since the elections were rigged, the parliament is not legitimate. The constitutional procedures were not followed, which obliged the prime minister to obtain my signature to call in the parliament, and he didn’t have it. So the election of the president was also illegitimate.

The constitution says that my mandate stops when the new legitimate president takes office. So, under our vision, he has not taken office as the legitimate president. It is a legal battle—which doesn’t mean that I am an alternative power center, because in reality I don’t have any of the instruments. I didn’t have much before, because that’s how Georgia’s constitution is.

But I had, of course, the power to speak—which I still have. I am legitimate in the eyes of the people.

Are you able to leave and return to Georgia freely? Are you in danger there?

There is no direct threat that has been expressed, except that each time I go somewhere, I am treated as responsible for high treason toward the country. It has been described that way by the president of the parliament, and that happens each time when I write an article or am interviewed.

It’s a latent threat, which has not been translated into anything, but anything can happen in the country. There are no real protective laws for anyone. You are not in a privileged position compared to a normal citizen, who can be put in jail for no reason.

There have been protests in Georgia for hundreds of days, and there were incidents of violence by the security forces toward demonstrators recently. Why is this violence escalating?

They started with violence. Then they stopped the violence because they realized it was attracting outside interest and generating more reactions from the population. But now they are restarting the violence.

How should the U.S. and the rest of the international community support the protesters?

It’s very difficult now. It would have been easier early on. Now, practically, the links are cut that could support any of the NGOs or activist movements directly. So what can be done is to give a voice to the people who come out or any representative of the Georgian people—more attention.

That’s really what we need, because it’s a small country. With many open crises all around in different countries, we are very often last on the list of priorities, which means [the Georgian Dream] are freer to do what they want. Attention is key. Things like the MEGOBARI Act are also very important.

How important is it for the U.S. Congress to pass the MEGOBARI Act?

One has to know that sanctions are working better in the case of Georgia than in big countries that have lots of resources—first of all, because we are not an economy that can live long in isolation. That is true even for the very rich people who live in Georgia. Everybody needs some contact with the outside world.

It is also very important because we are a small country, and everything is known very easily. Information spreads around. So, for the morale of people who are protesting and taking a lot upon themselves, it is very important to see that there is some form of justice. It doesn’t immediately change the reality they are living in, but somewhere there is some justice. It’s not that they are just alone confronting evil.