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Friday, Jan. 4, 2008

National Journal's Linda Douglass sat down with Sen. Lindsey Graham for "National Journal On Air." This is a transcript of their conversation. Audio of the full show is also available.

Graham: Well, glad to be with you, Linda, glad to see you back in politics. We missed you.

Graham: Oh, yeah, you got a wounded guy with a lot of money -- a dangerous combination.

Graham: Well, it didn't work in Iowa, it's not going to work in New Hampshire. I went to a caucus in Iowa to speak for John. About half the people were first-time caucus-goers. It was three times the size expected. And the overwhelming comments were, we just don't like negative campaigning. You can have all the money in the world, but there's a certain amount of genuineness you need to have in this business, and Mike Huckabee was able to connect with people -- he's done a good job in debates. John McCain has connected in the past with people in New Hampshire. He's made people mad in politics at times because he believes in a set of principles and at the end of the day, money can't change that.

But the negative express has left Des Moines and it's going to New Hampshire, and I do expect Governor Romney to really come after John hard, and I hope it has the same affect it did in Iowa -- it backfired.

Graham: Oh yeah, there's no question in my mind. I mean, just being at the caucus -- I'm here with [former Louisiana Gov.] Buddy Roemer and [former FTC Commissioner] Orson Swindle -- we all went last night, and I think, to a person, people in Iowa thought it was over the top. The attacks were unending. They were relentless. Mike Huckabee -- I may disagree with Mike on a couple issues, but he's a great guy, and we don't need to do that to each other. And I think Governor Romney is a fine fellow. He's done a lot of things in his life that he should be proud of, but the way he's campaigned in Iowa and what he's doing in New Hampshire is going to backfire.

And I think, Linda, that we're a country unique in this regard, that we elect our commander in chief. The president of the United States is the commander in chief of the Armed Forces and our Armed Forces are at war, and in South Carolina that's going to matter when it comes time to vote, and that's why John McCain is going to do well.

Graham: Well, we didn't raise questions about his foreign policy experience. He said on Fox the week before Ms. Bhutto was assassinated in Pakistan that foreign policy experience really didn't matter -- you just go to the State Department and you go to other places and you hire smart people. Well, smart people had four years of the wrong strategy. John McCain understands war, he understands peace, he understood that we had the wrong military strategy in Iraq and he spoke up. So to say after 9-11 that the president of the United States on day one doesn't need to have foreign policy experience, I think misunderstands the times we live in. Look what awaits the next president, Linda -- Iraq with still 100,000 troops involved in combat protecting a fledgling democracy surrounded by dictatorships, Afghanistan dominated by the drug culture, Pakistan very divided.

John McCain knows every world leader and, more importantly, they know him. And he knows Putin. He looked into Putin's soul and saw KGB, so John McCain does have foreign policy experience, Mitt Romney doesn't, and to try to explain it away like it's not important, I just think is naïve.

Graham: I think Mike Huckabee is an outstanding individual, he was a good governor, but we're electing a president to be commander in chief. And the distinction I'm going to draw between John McCain and anybody and everybody in the field on the Republican and Democratic side is to try to get the voter to think before they go into the polls that the primary job of the president is to keep us safe. We're a nation at war, we've got hundreds of thousands of young men and women in harm's way, we need somebody to command them that understands war, and John understood the failed strategy in Iraq, and he pushed to change it in a way that was unpopular but is going to be proved to have been right.

So that's my message. It doesn't matter who you fill in the blank, nobody in this race can compete with John McCain in terms of experience, knowledge. And if you want an agent of change, look at his record in the Senate. I mean, he hasn't talked about bipartisanship -- he's lived it, he's acted it out, and he's done things that have made people in his own party mad at him, so that's the kind of change America needs.

Graham: If you are having a hard time deciding between Obama and being a Republican, you've got a personal problem, because you're not listening to Obama. The Democrats -- many of them are my friends -- make Hugo Chavez look moderate. They've gone so far left here, they dance to the tune of MoveOn.org. Senator Obama, Clinton and all these folks are afraid to cross Moveon.org -- when they attacked General Petraeus they didn't say a word about it. They're trying to get out of Iraq faster than the other without thinking about the consequence.

So if you're looking at the difference between Republican candidates and Obama, pick an issue and I can show you the difference between -- taxation and you name it. Obama is an attractive figure. He is an articulate, well-spoken, sincere person. But I don't think he's ready to be president of the United States, because the job is demanding, and if you're looking for experience that matters, I think you're going to be looking to John McCain, whether you are Republican, Independent, or Democrat.

Graham: Thank you, Linda.

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