Q&A: BILL RICHARDSON
Transcript: Bill Richardson On Immigration, Mitt Romney And More

© National Journal Group Inc.
Friday, Dec. 7, 2007

National Journal On Air with Linda Douglass
Bill Richardson

National Journal's Linda Douglass sat down with Bill Richardson for the tenth edition of "National Journal On Air." This is a transcript of their conversation. Audio of the full show is also available.


Q: I want to welcome Governor Bill Richardson, the governor of New Mexico and a Democratic presidential candidate. Welcome, Governor Richardson.
Richardson: Nice to be with you, Linda.
Q: Thank you very much for joining us. Let's start right out with the news of the day. Governor Romney gave a speech yesterday talking about the depth of his faith and religious belief, and he said that freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. And some people were hearing that as an implicit criticism of people who don't believe in God. What was your reaction?
Richardson: Well, I think that Governor Romney addressed the Mormon issue properly, with principle. There shouldn't be an exclusion of anyone based on race, ethnicity or religious beliefs. You know, he got a little moralizing for me, but in the end, I think he had to clear this up and it was important he did this. We have a Hispanic who might be president, an African-American, a woman, a Mormon possibly... there should be no disqualifications. I think the speech was good. He preached a little too much for my taste.
Q: But do you think that you have to be a believer in order to be a serious candidate for president and really a serious citizen in this country?
Richardson: I never wear religion on my sleeve, and the president should not impose his or her religious beliefs or values on anybody. But for the presidency you want to have a leader with character and values.
Q: Well, of course you are running for president and have a strategy that you have been embracing and talking about -- to come in in the top three in Iowa or New Hampshire. You have said that that's a very important thing for you to have to do to stay credible in the race. Of course, right now it's Clinton, Obama and Edwards in the top three. Which of the three do you think that you're going to overtake and why would that be?
Richardson: Well I, as I said, my hope is to be in the top three in Iowa and New Hampshire and then the third one, Nevada. I don't know who it will be, but we're picking up momentum. We're in and out of third in New Hampshire. Voters in Iowa and New Hampshire make up their minds the last five days, and my theme of bringing the country together -- that I'm the most experienced, the most qualified candidate -- when voters are deciding, when the crunch time comes, that's my strategy. Plus intensive visits, grass roots, town halls... I've been to every one of Iowa's 88 counties in New Hampshire. I'm good at retail politics, shaking hundreds of hands every day. That's the way you do it, because these are states that appreciate that grassroots contact.
Q: The two front-runners have been really going after each other in sort of personal terms -- that's Clinton and Obama. So I wanted to ask you about some of the charges they make against each other. Do you agree with Hillary Clinton that Barack Obama may not have enough experience to be president, and do you agree with Obama that voters want to move beyond the Bush-Clinton years and beyond the battles of the 90's?
Richardson: You know, I am benefiting from this "food fight" that these two front-runners are having. We need to be positive. We shouldn't get into those personal attacks, but we should just focus on policy differences. When candidates like both of them go after each other, it benefits candidates like me that are positive.

You know, I don't want to get into their food fight. There are legitimate issues out there, involving health care and immigration and Iraq and Iran. I have plenty of differences with both on those issues, but let them go ahead and fight each other. I'm staying back and being positive and talking about what's good about this country and what I'm ready to do to solve problems.

Q: Well, let's talk a little bit about immigration. It's a very big issue in these early states, especially Iowa. And all of the Republicans and some of the Democrats clearly feel now required to speak about illegal immigration in very punitive terms. How do you react to the rhetoric that you hear from Democrats in general, and some of the candidates in particular, the rhetoric that is more punitive than focused on say, comprehensive immigration reform, which would have a path toward citizenship?
Richardson: Well, I find it very appalling, quite frankly, because, as I said, I'm positive about resolving problems, and what I hear a lot, especially from the Republicans, demonizing immigrants, even from some Democrats, and I think it's important that we deal realistically with this problem. We do have to secure this border with more border personnel, but not a wall. That is senseless, that's not America. I think those that knowingly hire illegal workers should be punished. And lastly, there should be a legalization plan. You're not going to deport 12 million people, that's not realistic and that's not America.

And to do nothing, which is why we're in such a mess -- the Congress and the president with this dysfunctional relationship -- is the most irresponsible. And I deal with this issue every day as a border governor, and I deal with all of these issues that all of these candidates, they have their 10-point position papers -- I've actually done things in many of the areas that are the main issues in the campaign.

Q: And you don't feel like you're swimming against the tide of public opinion?
Richardson: Well, yes. Sometimes politicians have to do what's not popular, and I never found that dealing with the immigration issue on an honest basis was popular. And so what I say is, have a comprehensive strategy, secure the border, but also deal realistically with the 12 million that are here. Sometimes voters like candor. They like you to tell them like it is, and you pick up points, too. But my whole issue, I have found -- having dealt with this issue for over 25 years, the immigration issue -- you never pick up any votes. The best thing to do is do the right thing.
Q: You have criticized Hillary Clinton's vote to declare the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization and said it was saber rattling. A lot of senators did vote for that measure, and some did argue that the Iranian guards do aid terrorists. Do they not?
Richardson: Yeah, they do, and they aid terrorists right in Iraq. But to take a senseless vote that has no meaning, provoking Iran at a time when we need as many friends as we can around the world to build a coalition to deal with the Iraq issue and to deal with making sure Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons... it just makes no sense. And what that vote could've done if President Bush had decided to use some kind of military strike -- which you can't put past him -- it would've given him justification to do that, with so many senators voting for it. And it's obvious now with the National intelligence Estimate that this was just saber rattling, that possibly even the president knew that there was no efforts on Iran's part to continue building their nuclear weapons program.
Q: Final question for you, Governor. You have said pretty unequivocally in the last several days that you don't want to be the vice president. So would you actually say no to Hillary Clinton if she becomes the nominee and offers you the number two spot?
Richardson: You know, Linda, I don't know how many more times I can say it. I'm not interested. I'm right now riding, looking at the beautiful New Mexico sunset. I can come back and be governor. I've got three years to go. I love being governor, I can pursue my foreign policy missions. I'm going to win the nomination, so this is an academic question, but I don't understand why it keeps coming up after so many times, I just say I'm not interested.
Q: Well, we're journalists, we can't help ourselves. Thank you so much, Governor Bill Richardson, governor of New Mexico, presidential candidate. Be safe out there on the trail. Thank you so much for joining us.
Richardson: Thank you very much, Linda.