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Friday, Feb. 22, 2008

“People have said, well, are you supporting Hillary Clinton because she's a woman -- and I say, if that were the case, I would have supported Elizabeth Dole.” — Kim Gandy

The National Organization for Women's political action committee endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for president late last year. In a recent interview with National Journal's Kellie Lunney, Kim Gandy, head of NOW, discusses the New York Democrat's international female fan club, offers some faint praise for President Bush and speculates on why sexism could be the last acceptable form of discrimination in America.

Gandy: If there were a former Democratic president who was out campaigning for Sen. [Barack] Obama, I don't think anybody would say anything about it. It's just politics.

To say somehow that her husband supporting her and actively campaigning for her makes her not an independent woman -- it is a little disingenuous for the same crowd of people to be painting her as both Machiavellian and as a damsel in distress.

Gandy: Women are a fairly diverse group, but the economy and education are important, and a sense that the candidate understands the issues that affect their lives. You know, George Bush pulled a lot of women's votes during his [2004] campaign. He did this whole empathy thing, and the women loved it. We were going crazy trying to get Sen. [John] Kerry to talk about women at all. Everywhere you looked he was standing with a group of male veterans, a group of male firefighters -- he was surrounded by men all the time, and you could not get him to address women. George Bush did exactly the opposite. He talked to women, talked about women, used women as [policy] examples. He was very smart about doing that.

Gandy: Oh, no. But it's because Hillary Clinton is in the race. I'm not sure it would have been any different, but because Clinton is in the race suddenly everybody says, 'Oh, the women's vote! There's a women's vote out there, and if we don't talk to them, they might vote for her.' And so everybody is talking to women, which is great for us. They're fighting over who's got the best record for women.

Gandy: It elevates women in political life that we have a female front-runner for the presidency. Women around the world see Hillary Clinton, going back to her days as first lady, as an advocate for their rights and their needs. I spoke at an international women's conference in Korea last fall and women from countries all over -- mostly Asian countries, the former Soviet Union -- asked: 'Could Hillary Clinton win? Could Hillary Clinton be president? That would be so wonderful.' They talked about how when she was first lady she would come to their countries.

She didn't just go on the sightseeing tour the way other first ladies do. She would go and meet with the women and meet with the women's organizations, and ask them what was going on with their lives. Whether the women in this country are paying attention or not, the women of the world are looking at Hillary Clinton and believe that it will change their lives if she's elected.

Gandy: Because she is an uppity woman. I think that the people who are demonizing her are the same people who demonized women lawyers [back in the 1970s]. We were the butt of jokes even in our law school classes. [Gandy is a former Louisiana trial attorney.]

It's men, and some women, of that generation, who think that there's not a place for uppity women and that women ought to know their place and not to aspire to take men's jobs. This is not ancient history, but people think it is. The women's movement has been so successful, and we've come so far so fast, that people forget that. And they don't give credit to people like Hillary Clinton, who had a very important role in that progress that we've made.

Gandy: I think that sexism is still so common in our society that people don't notice it so much. There has to be a lot of it, and it has to be very concentrated, and then you sit up and say, 'Oh, wow, now that's really too much. That's just gone too far.' But if you comment on the first time somebody says something sexist, or even the second time, well, 'You're just a sensitive woman.'

Gandy: No [laughs]. It was sort of an apology; it was sort of a defense, too. I'm not sure why Chris Matthews gets a pass on a lot of the things he gets a pass on. He's not friendly to women, and he's not supportive of our issues.

I think Hillary Clinton has been treated unfairly by the media in terms of the way that they use subtle sexism to basically criticize her from both ends. If she comes across as tough, she's a ballbuster; and if she shows any emotion at all -- even a cracking voice -- well, clearly she's too weak to be the commander in chief.

People can make their conclusions about it, but [they] are whip-sawed a little bit by the commentary. And it doesn't all come from the media; it comes from the other campaigns as well. Calling John Edwards the Breck Girl? There was plenty of sexism there, too, because that's such a female thing, caring about how you look. Hillary Clinton isn't getting 100 percent of the sexism, but it's clearly concentrated on her.

Who would have thought that we would have a woman and an African American in the front-runner positions? I think we'd all think we'd died and gone to heaven. It's incredible, and it's good news. I hope that the Democrats don't stand in a circle and whip out their guns and shoot each other.

Gandy: The comment that she made about Martin Luther King, in an historical context, was completely accurate. If King were alive today, I think he would tell you that he and President Johnson had a political partnership in passing the Civil Rights Act, and that he rallied the troops and Johnson twisted arms in the Congress. That it took the two of them to ultimately get the Civil Rights Act passed. I think it's unfair to call that a racial comment. I really do.

Gandy: Well, I think that's hard to say. I think there are a lot of women who are very excited about the possibility of having the first woman president. There is a gender gap for her in almost all of the races so far, and we know historically that without a significant gender gap, no Democrat has been elected in recent history. Historically speaking, the gender gap is very critical to Democratic candidates because men tend to vote Republican. I think that's why Sen. Obama is working hard to talk about women's issues and to pursue the women's vote. And I think he understands that he needs women's votes and he needs a gender gap if he is the ultimate nominee, as she does.

Gandy: You know, I don't know. I've seen polling like that. I've heard in a couple of states that Sen. Obama did best with the wealthiest and most educated segments of the population. That's the crowd that tends to vote Republican [laughs]. So I don't know what that means, or why that would be. It's not the case with my friends, but then my friends aren't a good measure of that [laughs].

Gandy: Yeah, and if you believe the polls, then she's doing a lot better among blue-collar, especially blue-collar women and working people. And it's sort of the opposite of what the campaigns are portrayed in the media. I think that she's portrayed as an elite and he's portrayed as community organizer and it's really... that's not who the polls say, at least, that they're attracting. But if you look at -- people have said, well, are you supporting Hillary Clinton because she's a woman -- and I say, if that were the case, I would have supported Elizabeth Dole. That is just ludicrous.

God knows NOW has gotten into trouble before supporting men over women [laughs]. We very proudly support the candidate who is the best on the issues that are a priority for us. And if that's a man, fine. That's what we do and how we operate. But her leadership on the issues that we care about has really been extraordinary.

I mean, there are just so many things: the Children's Defense Fund, volunteering for the battered women's shelter, volunteering for legal aid. This is a woman who has been doing this kind of work her entire life and she has a long, long record on women's rights issues and on taking leadership on women's rights, and on working to improve the status of women. And she did it as first lady, in a way that other first ladies have not done since Eleanor Roosevelt.

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