11-15-2003
Cover Story - The Evolution of Tom DeLay'They Are Trying to Demonize
Me' Richard E. Cohen
House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, and Rep. Jim
Greenwood, R-Pa., are poles apart when it comes to federal
policy on abortion. The moderate Greenwood is one of the few
House Republicans who support abortion rights, a stance that
DeLay and fellow conservatives traditionally haven't tolerated.
So it may seem surprising that Greenwood sings DeLay's praises
for his handling of this year's debate on the "partial-birth"
abortion bill.
When the House had debated similar legislation in previous
years, Republican leaders denied Greenwood and his allies the
opportunity to offer an amendment on the floor permitting legal
exceptions to an outright ban on the controversial abortion
procedure. Early this year, Greenwood and moderate Rep. Nancy
Johnson, R-Conn., took their plea to DeLay and reminded him of
their party loyalty as senior members who have worked on other
key issues. Recognizing that the request was vital to a small
Republican cadre, DeLay acquiesced. He single-handedly overrode
objections from other GOP conservatives and allowed House debate
on the amendment.
"In rising through the leadership, Tom DeLay has recognized
that he needs to keep the entire [House Republican] Conference
on board," Greenwood said in an interview. "He has figured out
how to be an outspoken leader of conservatives, and still
represent all Republicans. I respect that."
True, DeLay's decision was made easier because he was
confident -- and correct -- that the House would defeat the
amendment, sponsored by Greenwood and House Minority Whip Steny
Hoyer, D-Md. But the key point is that even though other
Republicans had routinely rejected the moderates' request, DeLay
took it seriously. "He respects that I have had to make some
tough votes [on other bills], and that I expect to be treated as
a member of the team," Greenwood added.
Not long ago, DeLay, too, would probably have dismissed
Greenwood's request. During eight years as House majority whip,
from 1995 through 2002, DeLay made himself famous as a snarling,
highly partisan enforcer, with little stomach for those who
didn't share his conservative fervor.
But now that DeLay has served as House majority leader for
the past year, it is apparent that he has undergone something of
an evolution. He has polished his public image and taken pains
to portray himself as a disciplined, measured leader who is
responsive to all types of House Republicans as he sets the
agenda, hones strategy, and brokers deals.
"He has grown and reached out to members," said Rep. Jennifer
Dunn, R-Wash. Likewise, Rep. Ray LaHood, R-Ill., said that in
DeLay's new role, "Tom's strongest point has been his ability to
reach out to members, one-on-one."
Of course, for DeLay, "reaching out" used to mean cracking
his whip -- using any means necessary to ensure that his party
had sufficient votes to pass legislation on the House floor. But
in the view of DeLay's chief of staff, Tim Berry, his boss's
former whip duties helped to "increase his understanding of
members' needs, and gave him credentials with conservatives, so
that they take him at his word" now when he professes to protect
their interests.
In a rare interview, DeLay acknowledged that he has changed
to some degree since becoming majority leader. "I spend more
time on planning, strategies, developing agendas, and making the
trains run on time," he told National Journal in the November 6
interview. And DeLay said that because Republicans now control
Congress and the White House, "I don't get up every day and put
on my gloves to fight all day long. I get up every day to talk
to this person and that person, and sooner or later, we'll work
it out."
In the interview, DeLay made clear that he is keenly aware
that Democrats are always ready to pounce on him. "I wear their
attacks as a badge of honor," he said. "It's a concerted effort.
They are trying to demonize me just like they did with Newt
Gingrich." Yet, DeLay said, he has tried to minimize his
lightning-rod status of late.
"The good thing that comes from [the Democratic attacks] is
that I'm a lot more careful ... in what I say, how I approach
things, the battles that I pick to fight," he said. "When I was
a new member, I shot from the hip a lot.... But it doesn't slow
me down in doing what I think is the right thing. I'm just as
aggressive as I have always been."
To be sure, suggesting that DeLay has undergone an evolution
doesn't in any way mean that "The Hammer" has gone soft. He is
still highly effective, steely, and determined. And he is fully
capable of employing hardball, partisan tactics, particularly
behind the scenes, to accomplish his party's conservative goals.
But at 56, DeLay shows more savvy and maturity than before. Some
insiders believe it is all part of DeLay's carefully calculated
effort to groom himself for the speakership.
While plenty of Democrats continue to lambaste DeLay as evil
incarnate, a few offer a considerable dose of praise for his
consistent ability to get the job done. In their new book, Buck
Up, Suck Up, Democratic consultants James Carville and Paul
Begala assert that Democrats must emulate DeLay's model of
discipline and persistence if they hope to regain political
success.
Carville and Begala personally inscribed a copy of the book
for DeLay. "For Tom DeLay, whose reputation for hard work is
well deserved," the authors wrote. They added parenthetically,
"Fear not: We'll be back to bashing you soon enough!"
Similar praise came from liberal Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass.,
who said that while he objects to DeLay's occasional partisan
excesses, the two chat from time to time about House business.
"We have mutual respect for each other's seriousness of
purpose," Frank said.
Mellow the Leader
The post of House majority leader came open in December 2001,
when then-Leader Dick Armey, R-Texas, announced he would retire
after the 2002 elections. At the time, DeLay moved very quickly
-- within days -- to privately shore up support among his
Republican colleagues for his bid to succeed Armey, even though
the actual election was almost a year away.
Democrats surely were licking their chops at the prospect of
"Majority Leader DeLay" replacing former House Speaker Newt
Gingrich, R-Ga., as their new national villain. But DeLay lay
low during 2002. He deliberately avoided public comment on his
plans and stayed behind the scenes, in remarkable contrast to
some other high-profile congressional leadership contests of
recent years. When House Republicans elected new leaders after
last November's elections, DeLay faced no opposition and won the
No. 2 job by acclamation.
Even then, it was apparent that DeLay was becoming more
inclusive within the Republican Conference. Shortly after the
elections, the moderate Johnson told National Journal: "I have
confidence in Tom DeLay, because he listens to the moderates.
When you're in the leadership, you cannot run your own agenda.
You have to run an agenda that reflects the views of the
caucus."
When DeLay assumed his new post in January, it was obvious
that he had undergone a bit of a physical makeover as well. At
his wife's encouragement, he had his dentist cap his two upper
front teeth to fill the small gap between them. And he took
Dunn's advice and visited her Capitol Hill hairstylist to switch
from his dated, wet look to a more professional, styled cut. "I
wanted him to look like a majority leader," Dunn said.
DeLay then began to step into the well-worn cowboy boots of
his predecessor, Armey, who was known for his folksy Texas
banter during his regular briefings with reporters. Prodded by
his aides, DeLay has sought to warm up to reporters this year,
often opening his own briefings with a self-effacing comment or
an outstretched hand. "Did you miss me?" he once asked reporters
after spending several days in Texas. More recently, he noted
that the briefings no longer seemed to be standing-room-only and
asked, "Am I getting boring?"
While DeLay has raised his profile as a party spokesman on
Capitol Hill, he has done it mostly on his own terms. He has
carefully sought to avoid appearing on national TV or taking a
prime legislative role that would open him up to Democratic
attacks. In his weekly half-hour meetings with reporters in his
office, DeLay bans television cameras, and his office does not
issue a transcript afterward, as other congressional leaders
usually do.
Meanwhile, the majority leader's staff has been publicizing
another aspect of his "softer" side: DeLay has raised several
million dollars in recent years for the construction of a huge
facility in the Houston area for children in foster care
programs. He and his wife, Christine, have fostered three kids
in their home.
DeLay has also sought to round out his portfolio by
increasing his focus on foreign-policy issues. He has given
several high-profile foreign-policy speeches in recent years,
including a well-publicized address at the Israeli parliament in
August. In addition, he has continued his long-standing support
for democracy in Taiwan and for anti-Castro Cubans.
A strong supporter of Israel in its conflict with the
Palestinians, DeLay made waves when he pressed President Bush
this summer not to force Israel to make difficult concessions as
part of the internationally sanctioned "road map" to peace. The
Houston Chronicle editorialized, "DeLay is in Israel trying to
shove the Israeli-Palestinian peace process off the track." A
front-page New York Times article about DeLay's trip noted that
he had "emerged as a significant figure in Middle East policy,
particularly since his ascension to the majority leader's post."
The article added that DeLay, "by his presence, remind[s] the
Bush administration to pay heed to its right flank as it seeks
to make peace."
Up to His Elbows
In the interview with National Journal, DeLay said he feels
the pressure of increased public expectations from the
all-Republican government.
"It is expected that you get things done," he said. "You
can't go home and explain that there is only a one-vote margin
in the Senate, and a filibuster, and we had to massage this bill
a little bit, so that it's not as good as you would like, to get
it through the Senate. You can't explain that to people. All
they know is that there is a Republican Senate, a Republican
House, and a Republican president, and you ought to be able to
get something done."
By and large, DeLay has gotten things done this year, at
least in the House. Those close to him say that his strength
lies chiefly in his role as strategist. "He takes [members]
where they don't necessarily want to go, but where they need to
go," Rep. Kevin Brady, R-Texas, said.
DeLay has taken far more of a hands-on approach to
legislation than Armey did. DeLay has held weekly meetings with
committee chairmen, for example, a change from the more sporadic
schedule that Armey maintained. DeLay's aides also hold a weekly
session with committee chiefs of staff. These meetings have been
"very effective in reaching out and informing members of
leadership activities," LaHood said.
On many issues, DeLay's goal has been for the House to pass
the most-conservative bill possible, sometimes even adding its
own imprint to proposals from Bush. When the president used his
State of the Union message to propose a $15 billion initiative
to fight AIDS in Africa, for example, DeLay immediately praised
the plan. But he moved to add a conservative flourish by
requiring that one-third of the funds be allocated to sexual
"abstinence" programs.
Despite opposition from some flanks, this provision increased
enthusiasm among many conservative House Republicans who don't
routinely support AIDS-fighting initiatives. The Senate made
little change before approving the House-passed bill in May.
Senate Foreign Relations Committee ranking member Joseph Biden,
D-Del., even praised DeLay's support during the Senate debate.
DeLay has also been at the center of numerous crucial
conference committee negotiations this year between the House
and the more-moderate Senate. During the springtime conference
on the annual budget resolution, DeLay urged reluctant House
Republicans to accept the Senate's insistence that the 10-year
cost of this year's tax cut not exceed $350 billion; the
original House budget called for more than twice that amount. As
it turned out, however, DeLay had been privately consulting with
House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Bill Thomas, R-Calif.,
who later unveiled a clever plan to "sunset" most of the tax
cuts after several years to appear to keep the cost down. But
the total tax cuts, if extended for the full decade, have been
projected to exceed $1 trillion.
This fall, DeLay has played a prominent role in the
conference on Medicare prescription drug benefit legislation.
Even though DeLay has never served on a committee with
jurisdiction over Medicare, House Speaker Dennis Hastert,
R-Ill., named him as one of the five House Republicans on the
conference committee. According to several sources, the primary
reason was to reassure many dubious House conservatives that the
final version of the legislation would not create escalating
federal entitlement costs.
"He knows what conservatives need, and he's making sure that
it happens," said Brady, a Ways and Means Committee member. At
the same time, according to a DeLay aide, the majority leader
has deliberately refrained from public meetings or statements
about the issue that would permit Democrats to make him the
"face" of Medicare reform.
On energy legislation, DeLay has participated more actively,
in part because he has considerable experience with the energy
issues that are vital to his Houston-area constituents. When
Bush proposed energy legislation two years ago, DeLay headed a
task force that coordinated the several House committees that
have jurisdiction over the measure.
"Tom deserves a lot of credit for the House's ability to
produce a bill," said House Energy and Commerce Committee
Chairman Billy Tauzin, R-La. "His expertise is not in the
management of details, but in developing the strategic policy
and message."
Tauzin also credited DeLay with giving vital assistance on a
provision to phase out the petrochemical fuel additive MTBE,
which is being replaced by the expanded use of corn-based
ethanol. "He helped to make sure that it was a balanced
compromise," Tauzin said. He contended that DeLay "ranks with
[former Speakers] Tip O'Neill and Jim Wright as a dominant
figure indispensable to the House."
Still Throwing 'Em Red Meat
At key moments this year, DeLay has pointedly sought to serve
as the congressional Republican leader who is the quickest and
harshest in defending Bush from Democratic attacks.
After Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., criticized the Iraq war
as a "fraud ... made up in Texas," for instance, DeLay called on
Democratic leaders "to have the courage to tell their hero Ted
Kennedy that he went too far." When Democratic presidential
candidate Howard Dean told a rally that Attorney General John
Ashcroft "is not a patriot," DeLay called Dean "a cruel and
extremist demagogue." And DeLay declared before a Heritage
Foundation audience, "The blame-America-first hate speech of the
American Left has infected the Democratic Party's national
leadership to a dangerous degree."
Talk like that sounds like the old Tom DeLay, and it delights
the conservatives who make up the majority of the House
Republican Conference. Although conservatives concede that they
have not won everything they wanted this year -- and that the
verdict is still out on the success of the 108th Congress --
they applaud DeLay's takeover as majority leader.
"Tom has represented conservative interests," said Rep. Sue
Myrick, R-N.C., who chairs the House Republican Study Committee,
a powerful 90-member bloc of conservatives. "He's toned down his
rhetoric a bit because his job has changed. Now, he has to take
the big picture into consideration. But it hasn't changed him.
We work together closely with him and with Speaker Hastert."
Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, said that despite the lack of a
conservative working majority in the House, "we have done a good
job in passing a conservative agenda. Tom DeLay has played the
key role on that." Hensarling was a top aide to then-Sen. Phil
Gramm, R-Texas, and has emerged as an outspoken GOP freshman. He
said he has had reservations about voting for certain bills,
such as the budget resolution and Medicare reform, but he has
deferred to vigorous persuasion from senior Republicans, notably
DeLay. "He's been here 20 years, and I've been here 10 months,"
Hensarling added.
As leader of the conservatives, DeLay has quietly pursued a
broad agenda, and in the interview with National Journal, he
said that more is to come. "This is just the start," he said.
"Hopefully, we come back after 2004 with a larger majority in
the Senate and in the House. We will start talking next year
about doubling the size of the economy in 15 years.... You start
with Republican values: a major overhaul of the tax code,
regulatory reform, redesigning the government, redesigning the
Congress."
DeLay also continues to be a prolific fundraiser for his
party, employing pioneering and often controversial techniques
through his leadership political action committee, Americans for
a Republican Majority, or ARMPAC. The organization contributed
more money to congressional candidates in each of the past two
cycles than did any other leadership PAC, said Jim Ellis, who
has been its executive director since 1998. Although the 2002
campaign finance law has shut down some of ARMPAC's soft-money
operations, pending the Supreme Court's decision, Ellis said
that other programs are raising record sums.
While DeLay has won wide praise from across the GOP, he can
still show a few rough edges in dealing with party members. Some
Republicans who sit on the House Appropriations Committee,
including LaHood, bristle that GOP leaders increasingly have
adopted a top-down style. "The speaker, the majority leader, and
their staffs really dictate a lot of what goes on in
appropriations, especially when bills are in conference
committees," LaHood said.
Moreover, sources close to both the White House and DeLay
privately concede that he is not on close personal terms with
the president, despite their mutual efforts to depict harmony.
And while DeLay seems to have close, complementary relationships
with Hastert and with the No. 3 in the GOP leadership, House
Majority Whip Roy Blunt, R-Mo., even those relationships have
been marked by occasional ambiguities and tensions this year.
Early on in his speakership, Hastert was sometimes depicted
as DeLay's puppet, because it was DeLay who first tapped Hastert
for the leadership track by selecting him as chief deputy
majority whip in 1995 and then supported him for speaker in
December 1998. That was a tumultuous time for House Republicans.
In July 1997, DeLay confessed that he had actively encouraged
the unsuccessful Republican coup against Gingrich; the two had a
history of bitter clashes in past leadership races. Then House
Republicans faced setbacks in the November 1998 election, and
shortly afterward, Gingrich resigned under pressure. Amid
President Clinton's impeachment in December 1998,
Speaker-designate Bob Livingston, R-La., also stepped aside
after revelations that he'd had extramarital affairs.
Through the turmoil, DeLay survived and prospered as whip. He
pushed Hastert to the fore for speaker and tapped Blunt as chief
deputy majority whip. DeLay himself held back, saying in the
interview, "I did rule out being speaker when Newt Gingrich
stepped down." In an interview, Blunt recalled that DeLay
"decided because of impeachment and other matters that the House
wasn't ready for him as speaker."
The DeLay-Hastert alliance has been a symbiotic relationship
in which they serve as close partners. They have very different
styles, however, with Hastert widely known as a "fair and
good-hearted soul," in Hoyer's words, and the wily DeLay known
as something else entirely.
As this year began and DeLay was set to become majority
leader, even close allies noted that Hastert and DeLay, plus
their chief aides, had some reservations. "There was an issue in
Speaker Hastert's mind of how Tom's strong personality would
fill that role," said Berry, DeLay's top aide. But Berry and
Hastert's chief of staff, Scott Palmer, "discussed this at
length," Berry said. "Tom is very deferential to the speaker.
And he helps make the House run smoothly." Indeed, the two
leaders seem to have benefited from their extensive
collaboration and have managed to keep any differences largely
under wraps.
The DeLay-Blunt relationship has entered somewhat
more-troubled waters. GOP insiders said the tension began when
Blunt bypassed more-experienced candidates suggested by DeLay
and instead chose second-term Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va., as his
chief deputy whip. As the months passed, it became clear that
Blunt's whip style was more low-key than DeLay's had been, and
that the contrast was a source of some conflict between them.
"DeLay likes to be feared, and he plays to win," said a House
GOP source not linked to either camp. "Blunt likes to be liked,
and he plays not to lose."
Perhaps most troubling of all was a front-page article in The
Washington Post on alleged special-interest pleading by Blunt on
behalf of Philip Morris USA in last year's bill creating the
Homeland Security Department; the firm is a large employer in
his district. Some Republicans contend that the article was
planted by DeLay's camp as a shot across the bow at Blunt, but
DeLay allies firmly deny the charge. Still, tensions between
their two staffs have been evident.
Blunt praised the "great political and team-building skills"
of DeLay, with whom he meets weekly, and dismissed the
speculation of personal conflict. "I clearly have a huge
advantage, that the two leaders above me have been my
predecessors. They know just what needs to be done," Blunt said.
"That creates a logical but not unhealthy tension. Most of the
time, we reach the same conclusion."
Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde?
While DeLay's intense partisan drive draws plaudits from most
Republicans, Democrats are still gnashing their teeth. Hoyer has
blasted DeLay for "destroying the enemy outside the rules."
Another veteran House Democrat contended, "DeLay has destroyed
the House as a representative body."
Hoyer and Rep. Martin Frost, D-Texas, the ranking member on
the House Rules Committee, have led the attack on DeLay for
creating in the House a closed process that leaves virtually no
room for bipartisanship or participation from the minority, and
that punishes Democratic constituencies and programs. The
Democrats' prime focus in recent weeks has been the effort by
Republican appropriators to bar "earmarks" for the Democrats who
voted in July against the appropriations bill for the Labor,
Health and Human Services, and Education departments.
Republican allies dismiss what they regard as the Democrats'
obsession with DeLay. "[The Democrats] are the consummate
generals fighting the last war. They are stuck in the 1980s,"
said Republican National Committee Chairman Ed Gillespie.
"Personally, I feel badly for Tom. But, for the party, I can
think of no one tougher" to take the Democrats' hits.
Whether the Democratic hits over DeLay's alleged bullying
will resonate with the public and the media remains to be seen.
But Democrats were able to shine a negative light on DeLay this
year over his heavy involvement in Texas redistricting.
DeLay waged a highly controversial backroom effort to urge
the GOP-controlled Texas Legislature to pass a new congressional
redistricting map, even though Texas, like other states, had
just completed redistricting following the 2000 census. If
ratified by the Justice Department and federal courts, as
Republicans fully expect, the final Texas congressional map
could result in as many as seven new Republican seats, at the
expense of incumbent Democrats.
Although state and national Republicans emphasize that DeLay
did not write the actual details, there is widespread agreement
that he placed redistricting on the table in Austin and that he
overcame numerous obstacles to win the enactment of a new map
last month. In the final stages of negotiations among
Republicans in the Texas House and Senate, DeLay engaged in
shuttle diplomacy between the two sides for three days.
Rep. Pete Sessions, R-Texas, called DeLay "the manager of the
new map." Rep. Thomas Reynolds, R-N.Y., who chairs the National
Republican Congressional Committee, said, "If Tom DeLay hadn't
been there, it wouldn't have happened." Likewise, Brady, who was
by DeLay's side during the final negotiations, echoed Reynolds's
sentiment.
Democrats complained that the results blatantly violated
civil-rights and election law, and they griped about strong-arm
tactics by federal and state agencies during the lengthy battle
in the state Legislature. "In Austin, senior Republicans sent
all kinds of signals that they didn't want to do redistricting,"
said Frost, the chief redistricting strategist for Texas
Democrats. "DeLay's success shows a reckless kind of strength."
Most of the large Texas newspapers editorialized against
DeLay's redistricting efforts, as did other major papers across
the country. "Texas wasn't just gerrymandered," The New York
Times said in an editorial last month. "It was Hammermandered."
The Times added: "Black and Hispanic voters are complaining of
being electorally ghettoized into fewer districts. They have a
strong case to make.... The redistricting plan's zigzags, and
nips and tucks, chart a partisan willfulness that should come to
haunt Mr. DeLay in the next elections."
Rep. Charles Stenholm, D-Texas, said that both Democrats and
Republicans in his region are angry about DeLay's maneuvers and
that he already has determined his election plan. "I'm running
against Tom DeLay and what he has done," Stenholm said. "A
legitimate issue for November 2004 is, Does West Texas want Tom
DeLay's version of conservatism, or Charlie Stenholm's? I have
great confidence."
Bring 'em on, replies DeLay. "To run against me is to run
against the Republican record," he said in the interview. "The
polls in Texas show that I am very popular.... I am very
confident about the election."
What's Next for Tom DeLay?
For now, DeLay appears secure as the North Star of the House
majority, its most constant and influential presence. But the
frequent chaos in the House GOP's nearly decade-long rule
suggests the unpredictability of his future. DeLay's fate could
hinge on various factors, including the outcomes of
redistricting in Texas and of Bush's legislative programs in
Congress, and the results of the presidential election.
The next obvious step for DeLay is the speakership. But he
won't need to make that decision until the 61-year-old Hastert
creates a vacancy. In January, House Republicans abolished their
eight-year limit on the speaker's term, and Hastert has appeared
intent on holding his post. "As long as I can achieve
something," Hastert told National Journal during an interview in
May, "I'll do this job." Some of those close to Hastert say he
will not step down before Bush departs, given their close
relationship.
But other House Republican insiders suggest that Hastert is
"tired." They point to his announcement this summer that he will
publish his memoirs early next year as a signal that he might
step down within the year. Another camp contends that he might
leave after one more term, possibly to take an ambassadorial
post.
The talk about Hastert's plans, of course, generates
extensive private speculation among other senior House
Republican members with leadership ambitions. Some, such as
Reynolds, are allied with DeLay; others, such as LaHood or
former Republican Conference Chairman John Boehner of Ohio, who
now chairs the Education and the Workforce Committee, have
clashed with DeLay or his allies. Others mentioned as possible
speaker candidates include GOP Conference Chairwoman Deborah
Pryce, R-Ohio; Rep. Rob Portman, R-Ohio, who chairs the
Republican leadership; GOP Policy Committee Chairman Christopher
Cox, R-Calif., who also chairs the Select Committee on Homeland
Security; and Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier, R-Calif.
"This is more about personality than ideology," contended one
House Republican who has leadership ambitions and who is
skeptical of DeLay's prospects. "They don't want another
Gingrich." Another House Republican, who has served several
terms and is not interested in running for speaker, complained
that DeLay remains a "polarizing" figure and does not listen to
members as much as Blunt does, for example.
That sentiment suggests that DeLay has more work to do before
his colleagues truly consider him speaker material. But many
other Republican members interviewed for this story, from the
party's moderate and conservative flanks alike, gushed about
him.
For his part, Blunt said he will defer to DeLay if Hastert
steps down as speaker. As was the case when the speaker's job
was last open, in 1998, "Tom will know before anyone else if
it's the right time," Blunt said.
Indeed. In the interview, DeLay was largely unresponsive when
asked about his ambitions and qualifications to be speaker. "I
don't make that decision," he said. But he also suggested that
he will move when the timing seems right. "All my life, I have
been taught to do the best job in the job that you have, and
that if you do that, opportunities always will present
themselves," DeLay said. "Then, you make a decision whether you
want to take those opportunities."
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